Post by Tundra Dragon on May 25, 2019 1:27:17 GMT
So not too long ago I made this post on amino detailing why I didn't enjoy pikmin 2 as much when compared to the other titles. As I'm dropping amino, I wanted to save this particular post as I put a lot of work into it.
With that out of the way, here's my personal gripes with the 2nd game in the series.
The general idea with the main trilogy of Pikmin games is that the first lays down the general ideas, the second expands on those ideas, and the third refines those ideas. Which isn't wrong, that's exactly how the series plays out.
But sometimes I stop to think... Are the ways the 2nd game expands it's ideas actually good?
After Ant Man confirming my thoughts by having a similar viewpoint and a Sly Cooper video of all things giving me the idea and coincidence to write this, I'm gonna have to say it.
Pikmin 2 doesn't expand the game very well. Pikmin 2 is by far the worst in the series. I'd even argue that I've had more fun playing Hey!Pikmin! over a good 90% of Pikmin 2 but I'm already in the danger zone by saying Pikmin 2 isn't as good as people say it is so I'll refrain from mentioning that game again.
Now I'm not saying Pikmin 2 is bad. It's like trying to compare a nugget of gold to two bars of gold. Nothin wrong with a little chicken mcnugget of pure wealth, but the full on bars of the stuff is arguably better.
So what holds Pikmin 2 back?
The Caves
The first Pikmin game lays down its rules fairly well. Its an open exploration game that gives you the tools you need in order to solve puzzles in a beautifully designed world and save Captain Olimar. You do what you want in mostly the order you want (minus needing to reach checkpoints to reach certain areas) leading to more replayability.
The caves in Pikmin 2 throw that out the window by being linear as hell. Also most floors are randomly generated which can provide replay value but at the cost of potentially giving a bad layout. Honestly, whoever thought linearity belonged in this kind of game needs to -
*Hey!Pikmin! Appears*
.... Yeah ok let me explain.
HP's entire design revolve around its linear platform-y levels. It gives you exactly what the game thinks you need in order to complete each stage. And linearity is all you get with HP.
With Pikmin 2 you get some semblance of choice. What order to take the caves in, how many of each pikmin do I bring, do I use my time to play through one of these caves or do I stay on the overworld?
And to many that's a good thing. I... Disagree.
All of these non-linear features feels like such a tease. Being able to roam around the over world is fun, being able to decide the order you do the caves in is fun.
And then you actually get into the cave and it's just. Not the same at all.
In HP its all you get. No teasing to free choice. Just get from point A to point B. Also all levels are hand crafted and actulay built to accommodate the mechanics of HP so they're actually fun and fair.
Pikmin 2 just has narrow corridors where you can't really dismiss your pikmin very well and also shit sometimes falls from the sky and kills all your pikmin because fuck you I guess. And did I mention that the randomly generated rooms can sometimes generate in a very bad way because yeah that's an issue.
I know that many people manage to like the caves though, and I could understand - they shake things up a little, pose new challenges.
But they shouldn't accommodate for 90% of the game.
They should've been side activities that were high-risk-high-reward. Not the main feature of the game; the main feature should've still have been open exploration and discovery.
Basically the caves kinda suck. A lot. They pad out game play time to an insane amount, leading to a experience that's arguably too long, and have bad design.
The New Pikmin
White pikmin are... Fine. A bit on the situational side but most pikmin are, fair enough. Bulbmin are adorable and I love them and they're good.... Oh yeah a bit iver powered but being confined to the caves balances them out well enough so eh.
But the Purple Pikmin... Ooof.
Ok they're a great concept don't get me wrong. But as Ant Man said himself in his Pikmin 3 video, their fighting powers override the red's fighting strength. After you get these big boys reds are almost useless save for acting as fire men.
Also these guys being limited to caves doesn't help out a whole lot.
Also because I have no where else to put this - THE DOOMS DAY APPURATIOUS SUCKS AND I HATE IT. 100 purples? REALLY? It's literally going into cave after cave to grind for these dudes because chances are you won't have 100 purples from playing the game normally when you get to this thing and then spending 15 minutes doing nothing as it takes them all day to get it back to base.
God damn.
And to steal one last argument from Ant Dude - insta kill electricity sucks. And it also ruins the final boss.
The Exceptions
There are things I do love about Pikmin 2 a lot. The Pikopidia is a given. Bulbmin are adorable and I love them. Louie is a great edition to the character cast - hell all the world building and the pitiful amount of information we get about Hocotate is glorious.
And the parts that feel like pikmin 1, the parts that have you go around the overworld and solve puzzles to get to caves and treasure are AMAZING. Those are the parts that made me love pikmin. Those are what nintendo should've focused on.
And some of the bosses are fun. Some are bullshit (I'm looking at you segmented crabster. And angry snagret whos name I can't spell) but there's still a ton of ones I enjoy fighting.
As I said in the beginning I don't think pikmin 2 is a bad game. Heavily flawed, but all pikmin games are flawed. 1 was put together with duck tape and Elmer's glue, leaving it a glitchy mess. Same thing applies to HP. And even though 3 is my personal favorite of the franchise (mostly bc of alph bc holy hell he adorable) good GOD does it have awful pacing.
I just wanted to tear 2 apart in particular 'cus I hardly see this game get criticized.
And I'm also still salty as f*ck from that time a Canon Beetle Larva fell from the sky in the Snagret Hole and killed most of my pikmin in one fell swoop.
With that out of the way, here's my personal gripes with the 2nd game in the series.
The general idea with the main trilogy of Pikmin games is that the first lays down the general ideas, the second expands on those ideas, and the third refines those ideas. Which isn't wrong, that's exactly how the series plays out.
But sometimes I stop to think... Are the ways the 2nd game expands it's ideas actually good?
After Ant Man confirming my thoughts by having a similar viewpoint and a Sly Cooper video of all things giving me the idea and coincidence to write this, I'm gonna have to say it.
Pikmin 2 doesn't expand the game very well. Pikmin 2 is by far the worst in the series. I'd even argue that I've had more fun playing Hey!Pikmin! over a good 90% of Pikmin 2 but I'm already in the danger zone by saying Pikmin 2 isn't as good as people say it is so I'll refrain from mentioning that game again.
Now I'm not saying Pikmin 2 is bad. It's like trying to compare a nugget of gold to two bars of gold. Nothin wrong with a little chicken mcnugget of pure wealth, but the full on bars of the stuff is arguably better.
So what holds Pikmin 2 back?
The Caves
The first Pikmin game lays down its rules fairly well. Its an open exploration game that gives you the tools you need in order to solve puzzles in a beautifully designed world and save Captain Olimar. You do what you want in mostly the order you want (minus needing to reach checkpoints to reach certain areas) leading to more replayability.
The caves in Pikmin 2 throw that out the window by being linear as hell. Also most floors are randomly generated which can provide replay value but at the cost of potentially giving a bad layout. Honestly, whoever thought linearity belonged in this kind of game needs to -
*Hey!Pikmin! Appears*
.... Yeah ok let me explain.
HP's entire design revolve around its linear platform-y levels. It gives you exactly what the game thinks you need in order to complete each stage. And linearity is all you get with HP.
With Pikmin 2 you get some semblance of choice. What order to take the caves in, how many of each pikmin do I bring, do I use my time to play through one of these caves or do I stay on the overworld?
And to many that's a good thing. I... Disagree.
All of these non-linear features feels like such a tease. Being able to roam around the over world is fun, being able to decide the order you do the caves in is fun.
And then you actually get into the cave and it's just. Not the same at all.
In HP its all you get. No teasing to free choice. Just get from point A to point B. Also all levels are hand crafted and actulay built to accommodate the mechanics of HP so they're actually fun and fair.
Pikmin 2 just has narrow corridors where you can't really dismiss your pikmin very well and also shit sometimes falls from the sky and kills all your pikmin because fuck you I guess. And did I mention that the randomly generated rooms can sometimes generate in a very bad way because yeah that's an issue.
I know that many people manage to like the caves though, and I could understand - they shake things up a little, pose new challenges.
But they shouldn't accommodate for 90% of the game.
They should've been side activities that were high-risk-high-reward. Not the main feature of the game; the main feature should've still have been open exploration and discovery.
Basically the caves kinda suck. A lot. They pad out game play time to an insane amount, leading to a experience that's arguably too long, and have bad design.
The New Pikmin
White pikmin are... Fine. A bit on the situational side but most pikmin are, fair enough. Bulbmin are adorable and I love them and they're good.... Oh yeah a bit iver powered but being confined to the caves balances them out well enough so eh.
But the Purple Pikmin... Ooof.
Ok they're a great concept don't get me wrong. But as Ant Man said himself in his Pikmin 3 video, their fighting powers override the red's fighting strength. After you get these big boys reds are almost useless save for acting as fire men.
Also these guys being limited to caves doesn't help out a whole lot.
Also because I have no where else to put this - THE DOOMS DAY APPURATIOUS SUCKS AND I HATE IT. 100 purples? REALLY? It's literally going into cave after cave to grind for these dudes because chances are you won't have 100 purples from playing the game normally when you get to this thing and then spending 15 minutes doing nothing as it takes them all day to get it back to base.
God damn.
And to steal one last argument from Ant Dude - insta kill electricity sucks. And it also ruins the final boss.
The Exceptions
There are things I do love about Pikmin 2 a lot. The Pikopidia is a given. Bulbmin are adorable and I love them. Louie is a great edition to the character cast - hell all the world building and the pitiful amount of information we get about Hocotate is glorious.
And the parts that feel like pikmin 1, the parts that have you go around the overworld and solve puzzles to get to caves and treasure are AMAZING. Those are the parts that made me love pikmin. Those are what nintendo should've focused on.
And some of the bosses are fun. Some are bullshit (I'm looking at you segmented crabster. And angry snagret whos name I can't spell) but there's still a ton of ones I enjoy fighting.
As I said in the beginning I don't think pikmin 2 is a bad game. Heavily flawed, but all pikmin games are flawed. 1 was put together with duck tape and Elmer's glue, leaving it a glitchy mess. Same thing applies to HP. And even though 3 is my personal favorite of the franchise (mostly bc of alph bc holy hell he adorable) good GOD does it have awful pacing.
I just wanted to tear 2 apart in particular 'cus I hardly see this game get criticized.
And I'm also still salty as f*ck from that time a Canon Beetle Larva fell from the sky in the Snagret Hole and killed most of my pikmin in one fell swoop.
