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Post by ShadowRaptor101 on Apr 21, 2016 5:02:20 GMT
Alright, so despite being a prominent member of Pikipedia and being one of the most frequent voices on Pikcast, I have yet to actually make a post here. So, I decided to change that, and I'll be making my first post a discussion board for a topic that I have recently been interested in hearing people's views on. Also, I am surprised that discussion of this elsewhere up until now has been seemingly nonexistent. Here is the question:
Which ending of Pikmin 2 is supposed to be regarded as canon?
Ending A - Olimar and Louie complete the debt repayment mission and go home. Louie gets left behind.
Ending B - Olimar and the President rescue Louie from PNF-404 and go home with all the treasure.
Now, I know that up until this point, virtually the entire Pikmin community instinctively regarded Ending B as canon, mainly because we were young and didn't think twice. However, let's take a look at the evidence for both sides.
A Evidence
* Olimar specifically mentions in Pikmin 3 that this is his third visit to the planet, not his fourth, as would be the case IF Ending B was canon. * Nearly every single other significant event in the previous games (The debt, Olimar's previous crash, the SS Dolphin, etc) are all brought up in Pikmin 3, but not the adventure to save Louie. Even the bad ending of Pikmin 1 is brought up as a bad dream. * Olimar mentions a debt in Pikmin 3, but he never states that this is a separate debt than the one in Pikmin 2. * Louie could've never made it back home, and Olimar just found him again when he went back to PN4-404 for the third time. It is never specifically stated that Louie ARRIVED on the planet with him, and this could explain his traumatized behavior. * The presented goal of Pikmin 2 was to help the company repay their debt. When that is completed, the credits roll, which is a universal ending sign. We are then given the OPTION to return, not forced to or told we even need to. * Most games that have post-credits content usually treat that content as non-canon, unless stated otherwise. * Nearly everything about the Wistful Wild screams "post-credits bonus material"; you unlock a pallet-swap for your ship, unlock an extra-tough area, one of the caves literally being a boss gauntlet. * Most people claim "but most of the game takes place AFTER you complete the debt!" No, you unlock 1 more area, which can literally be completed in a single day. It just felt like a lot more when we were younger. * Every cave and above-ground treasure in the first 3 areas adds up to just the amount you need to repay the debt. The official Pikmin 2 guide book even directly treats this as if this is intentional. B Evidence
* ...um
I know this sounds incredibly biased due to the fact that I believe Ending A is canon, but that's just the problem; there IS no evidence present in Pikmin 3 to discern Pikmin 2's post-credits content as the canon ending of Pikmin 2. In fact, considering it canon actually creates inconsistencies in Pikmin 3. Yet, for some reason, a lot of people I've shown this to, despite all that I've gathered and presented to them, still choose to cling on to the notion they've pre-conceived for 9 years, just because it is what they're used to, ignoring all conflicting evidence.
So, what do YOU think? Does this evidence convince you that Pikmin 2's post-credits content is not canon and is intended to just be, well, post-credits content, as any other videogame would sensibly indicate? Or perhaps, did I miss some evidence that DOES indicate that Ending B could be canon, even with the inconsistencies it brings?
DISCUSS
(Disclaimer: Obviously any and all of this could change with the introduction of Pikmin 4, but I am going off of what we currently know.)
~Luther
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Post by Scruffy on Apr 21, 2016 14:56:23 GMT
Definitely a stirring debate. And your argument for Ending A is well-founded and convincing. I just have a few points to bring up:
*If Pikmin 2 was all about paying off Hocotate Freight's debt, and the canonical story arc ends at paying off the debt, why would Pikmin 3 contain the same debt? It seems more likely to me that Hocotate Freight would accrue a new debt. It doesn't make too much difference though. *Although Olimar doesn't specifically state that Louie accompanied him on his most recent spaceflight to PNF-404, he does say in his expedition log at the Garden of Hope, "We've come here in search of treasure to help us repay our debt." He could be referring to the President, or perhaps to Hocotate Freight as a body, but you only find Olimar and Louie on PNF-404 and it is established in Olimar's area hints that the President is not there. So it's weird that he would say "we" were sent there if Louie had been stranded there in the first place. *(most important) If Louie were left stranded on PNF-404 when the Pikmin 2 debt was repaid, it would seem like Olimar would be determined to rescue him. In the treasure journal entries where Olimar mentions Louie (such as the Drought Ender, giving him a lecture on survival), he appears to slowly but surely form something of a bond with Louie, and take responsibility as a superior. The progression of gameplay in general requires increasing amounts of teamwork, and by the debt's repayment, Olimar and Louie feel like a substantial duo and a good team. So if Louie got left behind, Olimar would be dead-set on recovering him. But the events of Pikmin 3 appear to take place after much time has passed (such that the continents of PNF-404 have advanced 250 million years or so) and it just seems unlikely that so much time would pass before Louie and Olimar are reunited. Furthermore, Olimar clearly feels in all his memos and expedition logs that finding treasure and paying off the debt is his main goal, not finding Louie or even keeping Louie safe. In fact, Olimar is consistently annoyed or frustrated by Louie's actions and general resignation from treasure hunting. It's not the attitude of a rescue mission.
However, most of this could be explained if it's said that Hocotate Freight is just really good at falling into debt and Olimar went back to PNF-404 and rescued Louie long before the events of Pikmin 3. That makes sense, since that would allow time for Olimar to grow accustomed to treasure hunting and to feel that Louie, whom he rescued early on, is now more of a burden than a helper. It's Ending A, but with a long prologue to Pikmin 3. Olimar returns to rescue Louie and does, but before leaving learns that Hocotate Freight has a new debt and needs more treasure. So they spend a very long while treasure-hunting (which is fine by Olimar, but the opposite of what Louie wants to do), and grow increasingly despondent with each other. Finally the Koppaites arrive, and this leads to a climax of the duo's animosity in which Louie tries to escape while Olimar is captured by the Plasm Wraith.
This prologue also works with Ending B though, just with Olimar already having Louie when Hocotate Freight accrues another debt. It seems to me it doesn't exactly matter which ending is canonical, if they both can lead to Hocotate Freight being in a new debt, and if they both do lead to Olimar on a long-winded treasure hunt while disenchanted with Louie's help. One isn't more valid than the other to me, but I really like Ending A now that you've mentioned it and defended it.
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Post by PikFan23 on Apr 21, 2016 15:48:26 GMT
Both of you raise good points. I haven't really thought much about what is considered the canonical ending of Pikmin 2, but now that you mention it, seems like Ending A is the canonical ending. I don't feel like analyzing your arguments right now, but know that they're good ones and they are definitely thought-provoking.
Also, small extra tidbit in support of Ending A (this one was obvious though): the Hocotate Ship at the Garden of Hope has its normal paintjob, not the shiny gold-colored one from after Pikmin 2's debt. Other than that, I'm not sure how I can contribute to this discussion other than I like your arguments.
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Post by En Passant on Apr 22, 2016 0:23:34 GMT
I am of the firm belief that All Treasures is canon, and I will refute your case and make my own to prove it. A Evidence * Olimar specifically mentions in Pikmin 3 that this is his third visit to the planet, not his fourth, as would be the case IF Ending B was canon. * Nearly every single other significant event in the previous games (The debt, Olimar's previous crash, the SS Dolphin, etc) are all brought up in Pikmin 3, but not the adventure to save Louie. Even the bad ending of Pikmin 1 is brought up as a bad dream. * Olimar mentions a debt in Pikmin 3, but he never states that this is a separate debt than the one in Pikmin 2. if I left my companion stranded on a hostile alien planet, I wouldn't mention it to strangers. The debts have to be different, because in 2, they fly off to Hocotate after repaying the debt, and in 3, the Ship is destroyed before they repay the debt and they get a ride with the Koppaites. It would be contradictory for them to be different. * Louie could've never made it back home, and Olimar just found him again when he went back to PN4-404 for the third time. It is never specifically stated that Louie ARRIVED on the planet with him, and this could explain his traumatized behavior. It's never stated that he didn't, so this isn't evidence to either side. * The presented goal of Pikmin 2 was to help the company repay their debt. When that is completed, the credits roll, which is a universal ending sign. We are then given the OPTION to return, not forced to or told we even need to. * Most games that have post-credits content usually treat that content as non-canon, unless stated otherwise. Credits rolls mean nothing. In the Sonic Adventure games and Sonic 06, you get credits after each of the 6/2/3 individual stories, but the Last Stories that take place after them are all unarguably canon. This invalidates the later points by itself, but there's more against those. * Nearly everything about the Wistful Wild screams "post-credits bonus material"; you unlock a pallet-swap for your ship, unlock an extra-tough area, one of the caves literally being a boss gauntlet. * Most people claim "but most of the game takes place AFTER you complete the debt!" No, you unlock 1 more area, which can literally be completed in a single day. It just felt like a lot more when we were younger. The only definition of bonus material is that it's bonus. The type of material is irrelevant: there are plenty of games with pallet-swaps, extra-tough areas, and boss rushes accessible before the final boss. Ever played Mega Man? * Every cave and above-ground treasure in the first 3 areas adds up to just the amount you need to repay the debt. The official Pikmin 2 guide book even directly treats this as if this is intentional. Actually, there's over 13,000 Pokos in those three areas, but that doesn't matter because correlation is not causation. Guidebooks are non-canon. The only point of real contention is whether Olimar went back for Louie or not before Pikmin 3. Scruffy raises a good point, but I think there's hard evidence that he did. In this Data File, we see the President in his spacesuit on the planet. Olimar wouldn't have any reason to include the President if he had never been there, and the only time he canonically could have was while rescuing Louie.
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Post by Creative Sushi on Apr 22, 2016 1:39:11 GMT
Just thought I'd argue a bit. * Olimar specifically mentions in Pikmin 3 that this is his third visit to the planet, not his fourth, as would be the case IF Ending B was canon. This does contradict your other point a bit: * Olimar mentions a debt in Pikmin 3, but he never states that this is a separate debt than the one in Pikmin 2. The debt was paid at the 10,000 poko's mark. So then are you saying that some of what happened before Louie was left on the planet was non-cannon? If trip 1 was Pikmin 1, Trip 2 was the first part of Pikmin 2 (Where they pay the debt), then how can Trip 3 be the same debt? Pretty much what En Passent was saying when he said: The debts have to be different, because in 2, they fly off to Hocotate after repaying the debt, and in 3, the Ship is destroyed before they repay the debt and they get a ride with the Koppaites. It would be contradictory for them to be different. Moving onif I left my companion stranded on a hostile alien planet, I wouldn't mention it to strangers. Well this was stated in Olimar's expedition logs, not to the Koppaites, so this doesn't really hold solid ground. * Louie could've never made it back home, and Olimar just found him again when he went back to PN4-404 for the third time. It is never specifically stated that Louie ARRIVED on the planet with him, and this could explain his traumatized behavior. It's never stated that he didn't, so this isn't evidence to either side. Sums it up. * The presented goal of Pikmin 2 was to help the company repay their debt. When that is completed, the credits roll, which is a universal ending sign. We are then given the OPTION to return, not forced to or told we even need to. * Most games that have post-credits content usually treat that content as non-canon, unless stated otherwise. * Nearly everything about the Wistful Wild screams "post-credits bonus material"; you unlock a pallet-swap for your ship, unlock an extra-tough area, one of the caves literally being a boss gauntlet. None of these are actually evidence, just common trends. * Most people claim "but most of the game takes place AFTER you complete the debt!" No, you unlock 1 more area, which can literally be completed in a single day. It just felt like a lot more when we were younger. Yeah, it can be completed in a day, but the entire game can be completed in 8. Of which the first is scripted and short, the second which allows for a single cave, and days 3-7 which allow 2 caves. Meaning that this day, which contains not only 3 caves, but the biggest caves in the game, is the largest day of the game. Not to mention that you are not finished with all the other content before you complete your debt. Lastly, this isn't even evidence. * Every cave and above-ground treasure in the first 3 areas adds up to just the amount you need to repay the debt. The official Pikmin 2 guide book even directly treats this as if this is intentional. As En Passant said: Actually, there's over 13,000 Pokos in those three areas, but that doesn't matter because correlation is not causation. Guidebooks are non-canon.
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Post by Creative Sushi on Apr 22, 2016 20:34:00 GMT
So lets bring this down to what it is now. Correct me if I'm wrong on anything or missing anything here and I'll edit the post.
A = Argument, R = Rebuttal
Side A: Everything after the credits of Pikmin 2 is non-cannon.
A. In Olimar's Expedition Log videos, he states many times that this is his third time visiting the planet. If Pikmin 1 were his first, The original trip in Pikmin 2 were his second, and the return to rescue Louie was his fourth, then Pikmin 3 would be his fourth trip to the planet, not his third. However if the post-credit content is non-cannon, then it would be his third. R. 1. The designers of the videos could have made a mistake. "Oh there are three games in the series, it's his third trip." 2. Olimar could have just not considered rescuing Louie as a third visit.
A. The Hocotate ship found in the Quaggled Mireclops arena in Pikmin 3 is not golden like it is in the post-credit gameplay of Pikmin 2. R. 1. The paint could have come off. 2. It could have been a different Hocotate ship of the same model.
A. Olimar says that he is on the planet because his company went into debt. The debt is described as to be very similar as related to the one in Pikmin 2, and it could be the same one. R. The debt was paid in Pikmin 2 before the credits.
A. It is a common trend that games have bonus levels and alternate skins at the end of the game all of the time, and most of these bonus contents are non-cannon. R. While this is true, there are many instances, if not just as many, which go against this formula.
A. The amount of content before the credits is far larger than afterwards. R. This is false. Adding another area with 3 of the largest caves in the game, and the fact that you complete your debt before walking off with all of the treasure from the previous areas make for plenty more content. In fact, its about half. The average poko's count in a fully completed is near 19,000, which is almost double the amount of debt accounted for in the first part.
Side B: The post-credit content is Cannon
A. If Louie were left on the planet in between the credits of Pikmin 2 and Pikmin 3, how is the environment so vastly different? The amount of time that has seemed to have passed greatly exceeds the lifespan of any creature. R. [To be added.]
A. The validity of the Expedition logs are questionable. Louie mentions in his log that he is a crew member of the S. S. Dolphin which was never true. R. Louie's log was never meant to be released to the public and was obtained by data miners.
A. While it is true that the credits play near half-way through the game, the game still doesn't say "The End" until Louie is rescued. R. [To be added.]
A. The president is shown as being on the planet in some of the data files left by Olimar. R. These same data files also show Louie and Olimar with the president, while there were never all three of them working at the same time. Other data files supposedly left by Olimar showcase Alph, Brittany, and Charlie, whom Olimar by this point had never meant. These images are probably just for game design with a friendly nod to the previous games, and are not cannon.
A. There are sculptures in the snow presumably left by the Pikmin of the President. How could the Pikmin know what the president looks like him never having been on the planet. Q. There are also generic snowman too. It could just be coincidence that these snowmen look like the president.
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Post by PikFan23 on Apr 23, 2016 20:28:13 GMT
...I actually take back what I said about supporting Ending A. I need to thoroughly review both endings before I can come to a reasonable conclusion... And also, I suck in arguments like these, because all the evidence tends to overwhelm me. I'm not that much of a contribution.
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Post by Ymmot on May 5, 2016 9:19:12 GMT
This debate is something I am so on the fence about, it's insane. To start, and while nobody has made this argument on this thread yet, the argument supporting Ending B: "The post-credit content we physically see on the actual Pikmin 2 discs holds more water than any accusations or contradictions found in Pikmin 3" cannot be made, as it is a logical loop, solely because it is strictly at the centerpoint of the debate. With the argument at hand, it flip-flops between both ideas that Ending A or Ending B are true. As an example of what I mean, since I don't think I'm very good at wording it: One could say "Pikmin 2 post-credits is not canon because the golden paint job is missing", while another argues "It could have chipped off, it's more reasonable to believe the paint was once there because we saw it in Pikmin 2." But the problem with this argument is that it assumes Pikmin 2 post-credit content is canon, which is what's being debated. Trying to weave explanations to support post-credit Pikmin 2 inconsistencies is not viable, the only valid arguments are evidence from any non-debated Pikmin canon, or outside official sources, such as an interview with Miyamoto. This being said, Scruffy makes a great point... *Although Olimar doesn't specifically state that Louie accompanied him on his most recent spaceflight to PNF-404, he does say in his expedition log at the Garden of Hope, " We've come here in search of treasure to help us repay our debt." He could be referring to the President, or perhaps to Hocotate Freight as a body, but you only find Olimar and Louie on PNF-404 and it is established in Olimar's area hints that the President is not there. So it's weird that he would say "we" were sent there if Louie had been stranded there in the first place. How could they've ("We've") come there in search of treasure, when assuming post-credits Pikmin 2 is not canon, Louie was still lost on PNF-404? The expedition logs were recorded AFTER the events of Pikmin 2 pre-credits, as indicated by "This is the third time that I've set foot on this planet."While I think this is near decisive evidence that proves that Ending B is the true ending, there are 3 faults: 1.) Wouldn't his 3rd visit be the time he rescued Louie from the Titan Dweevil? This inconsistency could be brushed off because Olimar may have just simplified the entirety of his Pikmin 2 adventure as one session. This is purely conjecture. 2.) One can argue Olimar's wording is just simplified. It would be less complex to just say "we were sent", rather than "I was sent, but had to locate Louie first." Again, conjecture. 3.) Who is to say that the expedition logs even hold any truth to them? They are external content, found on a website separate from any of the Pikmin game discs. This leads to another debate, but it is not the debate that is currently at hand.
This evidence leaves us a little flat. These tiny indecisive things from the expedition log leave us having to look for evidence elsewhere, since there is no way to absolutely prove anything with it.
What do you guys think? The debate continues...
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Post by Creative Sushi on May 8, 2016 3:15:07 GMT
I just wanted to to point out something small. Its very unlikely that the gold paint "chipped" or "brushed" off, since it would had to of left at least small particles. It would have been just too convenient for ALL the paint to chip off. Our friend Dave also found the ship textures per my request and we can see for sure that there are NO gold particles left on the ship at all. What would make more sense to say when determining what happened to the paint would to say that It burned off or melted. The ship did crash after all, and has burn marks throughout, so it would be much more likely for the paint to have melted when entering the atmosphere than for it to chip off. Small detail that doesn't prove anything, just clarification.
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Post by Scruffy on May 11, 2016 22:41:46 GMT
Greetings from South Korea! I've noticed a lot of argument over small details in these games and I've realized why it might be kind of fruitless. Because Pikmin 2 gives you the choice to rescue Louie or not, you effectively choose the ending of the game. In the first game you are forced to an ending because you have a time limit, eventually the events have to stop in a way the developers planned. And one ending is obviously canon. But in Pikmin 2, you have the choice to either complete the debt and end it there, or continue the rescue mission. Even if you choose to return and rescue Louie, the game doesn't end at the final boss battle, it allows you to continue your adventure for an indefinite amount of time. And I think the developers of Pikmin 3 realized this. Some players might have chosen to end the game at the debt (i.e. they had had enough, found it too hard, had other things to do, etc.) while some might have finished it to the end, which they want to consider canonical. So I believe that's why Pikmin 3's connections are so hazy, because they're trying to represent wherever the player ended Pikmin 2 as the canonical ending, to simultaneously avoid spoilers about the Wistful Wild and serve justice to those who played it all the way through. So if we decide where the story of Pikmin 2 ends, what's the point of debating the "true" ending? The ending we choose is true, and while I think it's safe to say the majority of us returned to rescue Louie, it's okay if we didn't. Because the game gave us the choice, we hold just as much clout over the story ending as the developers do. And at the end of the day, either ending can still transition to Pikmin 3 with its share of questions and inconsistencies.
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Post by Hunter4408 on May 12, 2016 2:43:37 GMT
Like Scruffy said, but my own opinion is that if you choose to continue on and save Louie, it's considered the completed ending. I won't call the completed ending the "True" ending because I mean, it's just how you want to play, even though I feel as if it's the most complete to the beginning of Pikmin 3.
But man, I'm just ready for Pikmin 4.
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Post by seanincorporated on May 20, 2016 23:34:21 GMT
Let's think outside the box for a bit. What if Pikmin 2's ending A, and B never happened... That's right, I've come up with an Ending C.
What if Pikmin 3's ending was the ACTUAL ending to Pikmin 2? This may sound bogus, but stay with me for a bit to explain how they're connected.
-What happens at the end of Pikmin 2? They lose Louie. What happens at the end of Pikmin 3? They lose Louie. -What was Olimar's goal in Pikmin 2? To collect treasure to repay the debt. What was Olimar's goal in Pikmin 3? To collect treasure to repay the debt.
Pikmin 3 could've happened in the same time as Pikmin 2. HOWEVER, there is the theory that PNF 404's surface changed overtime after Pikmin 2 until the koppaians came, so having it happen at the same time would mean that the planet's surface should've stayed the same. So why are the areas different in Pikmin 3? Here are some ideas.
1. Nintendo didn't want to show the same areas AGAIN just remodified, so they made new ones. 2. We don't know exactly how long Olimar was captured by the Plasma Wraith for, so there could've been a time gap there for the planet to change before the koppaians came to save them. 3. There is the chance that time ACTUALLY did pass while Olimar and Louie were underground, so the land would have developed overtime as they went on long journeys underground (Considering most of Pikmin 2 was set underground). 4. The Koppaians and Hocotates could've been in different areas at the time since we can't TRULY confirm that the areas in Pikmin 3 were our original areas from Pikmin 1 and 2 after a huge time development (Besides, it IS a big world)
If Pikmin 3's story actually was the real ending for Pikmin 2, it would totally contradict the cutscene in Pikmin 2 where Olimar is riding the S.S Dolphin 2 back home. I have to admit, it is very contradictory, but here's my theory on this. What if that was OLIMAR'S story on what happened? What if he made up that story, because if he did ride back home with the Koppaians, then he wouldn't be able to come home with the 10,000 pokos worth of treasure that's still inside the remains of the S.S Dolphin 2. Like I said, it's a theory. Maybe they returned back to get what treasure was left inside the remains of the old S.S Dolphin 2, and just said they went back to "Get more treasure", and "Save Louie". Considering the fact that even after saving Louie the game DOESN'T end there means that they most likely didn't come back JUST to save Louie. The game ends when you've collected ALL the treasure in the game, which means you've collected around 16,985 pokos worth of treasure, if you don't count the 10,000 from debt collecting, meaning that after realizing they've earned both the amount of treasure they've lost AND around 6,985 extra, they didn't need the treasure lost in the S.S dolphin 2 anymore which ends the game. Even AFTER collecting all the treasure, you're still allowed to explore the planet, which is probably when Olimar and the President are still searching for the remains of the S.S Dolphin 2.
Anyways, that's my thought on the true ending of Pikmin 2. If you have any questions, let me know.
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Post by Creative Sushi on May 21, 2016 5:27:19 GMT
Let's think outside the box for a bit. What if Pikmin 2's ending A, and B never happened... That's right, I've come up with an Ending C. What if Pikmin 3's ending was the ACTUAL ending to Pikmin 2?
This may sound bogus, but stay with me for a bit to explain how they're connected. -What happens at the end of Pikmin 2? They lose Louie. What happens at the end of Pikmin 3? They lose Louie. -What was Olimar's goal in Pikmin 2? To collect treasure to repay the debt. What was Olimar's goal in Pikmin 3? To collect treasure to repay the debt. Pikmin 3 could've happened in the same time as Pikmin 2. HOWEVER, there is the theory that PNF 404's surface changed overtime after Pikmin 2 until the koppaians came, so having it happen at the same time would mean that the planet's surface should've stayed the same. So why are the areas different in Pikmin 3? Here are some ideas. 1. Nintendo didn't want to show the same areas AGAIN just remodified, so they made new ones. 2. We don't know exactly how long Olimar was captured by the Plasma Wraith for, so there could've been a time gap there for the planet to change before the koppaians came to save them. 3. There is the chance that time ACTUALLY did pass while Olimar and Louie were underground, so the land would have developed overtime as they went on long journeys underground (Considering most of Pikmin 2 was set underground). 4. The Koppaians and Hocotates could've been in different areas at the time since we can't TRULY confirm that the areas in Pikmin 3 were our original areas from Pikmin 1 and 2 after a huge time development (Besides, it IS a big world) If Pikmin 3's story actually was the real ending for Pikmin 2, it would totally contradict the cutscene in Pikmin 2 where Olimar is riding the S.S Dolphin 2 back home. I have to admit, it is very contradictory, but here's my theory on this. What if that was OLIMAR'S story on what happened? What if he made up that story, because if he did ride back home with the Koppaians, then he wouldn't be able to come home with the 10,000 pokos worth of treasure that's still inside the remains of the S.S Dolphin 2. Like I said, it's a theory. Maybe they returned back to get what treasure was left inside the remains of the old S.S Dolphin 2, and just said they went back to "Get more treasure", and "Save Louie". Considering the fact that even after saving Louie the game DOESN'T end there means that they most likely didn't come back JUST to save Louie. The game ends when you've collected ALL the treasure in the game, which means you've collected around 16,985 pokos worth of treasure, if you don't count the 10,000 from debt collecting, meaning that after realizing they've earned both the amount of treasure they've lost AND around 6,985 extra, they didn't need the treasure lost in the S.S dolphin 2 anymore which ends the game. Even AFTER collecting all the treasure, you're still allowed to explore the planet, which is probably when Olimar and the President are still searching for the remains of the S.S Dolphin 2. Anyways, that's my thought on the true ending of Pikmin 2. If you have any questions, let me know. This was actually brought up a little from talk outside the forums. Shadowraptor sort of kept it in the air but had the same idea
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Post by seanincorporated on May 21, 2016 13:45:10 GMT
Let's think outside the box for a bit. What if Pikmin 2's ending A, and B never happened... That's right, I've come up with an Ending C. What if Pikmin 3's ending was the ACTUAL ending to Pikmin 2?
This may sound bogus, but stay with me for a bit to explain how they're connected. -What happens at the end of Pikmin 2? They lose Louie. What happens at the end of Pikmin 3? They lose Louie. -What was Olimar's goal in Pikmin 2? To collect treasure to repay the debt. What was Olimar's goal in Pikmin 3? To collect treasure to repay the debt. Pikmin 3 could've happened in the same time as Pikmin 2. HOWEVER, there is the theory that PNF 404's surface changed overtime after Pikmin 2 until the koppaians came, so having it happen at the same time would mean that the planet's surface should've stayed the same. So why are the areas different in Pikmin 3? Here are some ideas. 1. Nintendo didn't want to show the same areas AGAIN just remodified, so they made new ones. 2. We don't know exactly how long Olimar was captured by the Plasma Wraith for, so there could've been a time gap there for the planet to change before the koppaians came to save them. 3. There is the chance that time ACTUALLY did pass while Olimar and Louie were underground, so the land would have developed overtime as they went on long journeys underground (Considering most of Pikmin 2 was set underground). 4. The Koppaians and Hocotates could've been in different areas at the time since we can't TRULY confirm that the areas in Pikmin 3 were our original areas from Pikmin 1 and 2 after a huge time development (Besides, it IS a big world) If Pikmin 3's story actually was the real ending for Pikmin 2, it would totally contradict the cutscene in Pikmin 2 where Olimar is riding the S.S Dolphin 2 back home. I have to admit, it is very contradictory, but here's my theory on this. What if that was OLIMAR'S story on what happened? What if he made up that story, because if he did ride back home with the Koppaians, then he wouldn't be able to come home with the 10,000 pokos worth of treasure that's still inside the remains of the S.S Dolphin 2. Like I said, it's a theory. Maybe they returned back to get what treasure was left inside the remains of the old S.S Dolphin 2, and just said they went back to "Get more treasure", and "Save Louie". Considering the fact that even after saving Louie the game DOESN'T end there means that they most likely didn't come back JUST to save Louie. The game ends when you've collected ALL the treasure in the game, which means you've collected around 16,985 pokos worth of treasure, if you don't count the 10,000 from debt collecting, meaning that after realizing they've earned both the amount of treasure they've lost AND around 6,985 extra, they didn't need the treasure lost in the S.S dolphin 2 anymore which ends the game. Even AFTER collecting all the treasure, you're still allowed to explore the planet, which is probably when Olimar and the President are still searching for the remains of the S.S Dolphin 2. Anyways, that's my thought on the true ending of Pikmin 2. If you have any questions, let me know. This was actually brought up a little from talk outside the forums. Shadowraptor sort of kept it in the air but had the same idea Could you sum up some of the things he said about it?
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Post by OmegaZero22XX on Jul 6, 2016 7:00:35 GMT
I thought i had seen that ship had been gold plated? If that was so then wouldn't it be plausible that the Hocotate ship had its gold plating removed/ repossessed because of the new debt in a similar way to how the president sold the s.s. dolphin as an asset (also how could they afford to gold plate it if when Olimar came back he came back with near the amount of money of the debt? i guess thats a question for another time). In terms of Olimar stating that it was his third visit, he could have rescuing Louie as part of the second visit. OR he could be talking about willing visits to the planet not considering his crash landing (although highly unlikely). Even so Pikmin 3 could be an alternative timeline off of pikmin 2 where Louie doesn't get left behind, but this is just speculation. In the end what i believe to be cannon is still under consideration and i am merely trying to provide more info/speculation. Also has anyone translated the japanese versions of the expedition logs to see if they have different information, even slightly
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